Talk: English Wordbook/B

Black

Why is "black" here? Black is Germanic; it comes from O.E. "blæc." Yes, "swart" may have more cognates in other Germanic languages, but I don't see why we should replace a familiar word with a less familiar one.

Blairite/Blairtrothen

I would like to know where this word comes from. I guess it comes from 'troth' meaning 'true' or 'faithful', so the word would literally mean 'loyal to Blair'. Is this right?

I have never seen the ending before, but it looks like it could be realy useful. How about using the word 'trothen' itself as a honeword meaning 'loyal' or 'faithful'?

I bet thy's way ahead of me on this, and already know of this possibility. Oswax Scolere 21:05, 22 Dec 2005 (UTC)

Hullo,

Yes, you're wholly right. It seems to me that -ite means -trothen. Hence, landtrothen, would be good for patriot, etc. ~Inkstersco, impolitely late, 5 Jan 06.

Yeah, I really like this "trothen". Gonna try to bear it in mind so as can make new words with it in. BryanAJParry 14:39, 6 Jan 2006 (UTC)

Beau

These are two totally different words I think -- one is named after Beau Brummell, an early fop, and the other is a French word for handsome. Inkstersco 8 Jan 06

Fop should go! 05/2007

Guy

Guy is not Germanic. It isn't even "plainer", if you ask me, than "boy". I have used the argument in the past that certain words of non-Germanic origin are just ULIMATELY plainer (like "air") and so should be considered acceptable. However, is "guy" plainer than "boy"? Not so sure... BryanAJParry 16:35, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

I settle with you on this Bryan. To my mind, 'guy' is not better than 'boy', it may even be worse. Even the word 'boy' is not that bad, for it may be, as you say, one of those words which have come so far into English as to be almost homeborn.

The word I like most is 'lad', for it is most likely from a German tongue, and has all the same meanings. The only drawback I know is that it is more seldom heard in the south than the north. What do you, as a southerner, think of the word 'lad' (and 'lass' for what it's worth)? Could you live with them as the main words for 'boy' and 'girl'? Oswax Scolere 16:54, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

"Lad" is common down here, altho it tends towards connotations of drunkenness or yobbishness. "Lass" is understood as the equivelant of "lad", but sounds a little quaint (altho not much). "Ladet(te)" is more commonly used down south, but that word almost ALWAYS has connotations of yobbishness (unlike "lad", which only sometimes does). I think "lad" and "lass" work well, in short. However, these words both do refer to "young grown-ups", as it were, whereas "boy/girl" could be said to refer to young folk who've not yet entered adolescence. BryanAJParry 12:13, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

There's a difference in meaning then. Any child of any years could be called 'lad' or 'lass' to me, they're perfectly synonymous with 'boy' and 'girl'. Oswax Scolere 12:39, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

Do we need a matchword for 'boy'? It may be a Germanic word afterall. It has been likely linked to East Frisian 'Boi' meaning young gentleman and Middle Dutch 'Boeve' meaning 'Knave'. Which leads me to another asking. What about French and Latin words borrowed into English which are themselves of Germanic wellspring? Words such as 'Wait', 'Group' and 'Soup'. Do they need to be cleansed from Anglish also?

I personally think there is nothing wrong with it. 65.71.126.35 01:35, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

--Extremist rant starts here--

Whether or not 'boy' is ultimately from Germanic is, in truth, irrelevant. The word is phonologically impossible in Anglish. Though it may make me sound rather extreme, there are no native words with the 'oi' sound, and therefore we can't just say we ought to include it. The same goes with words beginning with a voiced fricative, they are so rare that they can only be considered as 'aberrant' from what is phonologically possible in Anglish.

--Extremist rant ends here--

Oswax Scolere 08:42, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

"there are no native words with the 'oi' sound". What about boil (n)? that is a native word. 83.100.254.113 08:15, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Oi! Yes I think that's a good point; The method might be "OE only", but the general rationale(make a note!) is phonological symmetry in accordance with modern Old English derivatives. In other words, Boy is conspicuously Romance, and should go. Inkstersco 16:32, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Do you mean voiced fricatives such as /Z/ or does that include the voiced /th/?

Yes, I am confused b ythat comment, too. Voiced fricatives ARE immensely possible in homeborn words. BryanAJParry 18:45, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Voiced fricatives are very common in Anglish words, but not at the beginning. The /TH/ sound is, I believe, the only one that is 'true' to Anglish, and even then it is only once contrastive in 'thigh' / 'thy'. Oswax Scolere 08:28, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

I guess I get your point. But sometimes voiced fricatives are pure English, for instance "vane" and "vixen". There are other examples of contrasts for "th", too. There are two kinds of "thou", and two kinds of "thee". Also, most GRAMMATICAL words in English beginning "th" are voiced, whereas most LEXICAL words are voiceless. This, that, these, thou, thine vs. thing, thistle, thought, thy. The voiced form of "sh" can NEVER be acceptable in English, however.BryanAJParry 17:04, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

But the voiced fricatives on 'vane' 'vixen' 'vat' and 'vole' are simply changes caused by the south western accent, which happened to become standard. The words would have otherwise been 'fane' 'fixen' 'fat' and 'fole'.

'Thee' and 'thou' have only one form do they not? The only place where the voiced and voiceless contrast (that I am aware of) is thy/thigh. But even this is not in Anglish if we do not use the old forms of the second person singular pronouns. Oswax Scolere 07:59, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

With respect, I don't see your point. Yes, those forms are the south western changed forms. And? You were saying no initial voiced fricatives can be Anglish. Well, when since did words with a Summerset origin all of a sudden become unacceptable? Also, it isn't a requirement for a sound to have a plethora of contrasts for it to be a phoneme. As I said, grammatical words in English tend to have a voiced sound. I don't see the point you're making. If the word is Germanic in origin, then it is acceptable. End of. I just can't understand what argument you are trying to make here. :) 82.44.212.6 11:41, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Is it possible that 'Boy' could be a homegrown word whose pronunciation may have been altered by outlandish influence. Maybe the Normans pronounced it that way instead and it caught on, I don't know :). I have heard there were sounds in English which were unpronouncable to the Normans and maybe 'Boy' in its original form, if it had one, may have been hard to pronounce so the mispronunciation became standard.213.249.186.141 09:50, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Hurlyburlyfield

WTF?? 83.100.175.74 10:55, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

I have to say that is a wunderuflly camp and eccentric formation. But I am not sure it is entirely appropriate for Anglish. The guideline remains as ever, come up with nothing if you would come up with nonsense instead :D Bryan BryanAJParry 12:24, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Are you gainstanding from the standpoint that Hurly-burly is not an established word? It is, albeit literary and archaic. I do note that the formation in its wholeness is somewhat clunky, but not forbiddingly so. ~Inkstersco

I disagree that hurly-burly is archaic; it's in use round here. but it is a bit of a light-hearted word. Round my way it has jocular connotations, connotations not apropriate for war. But let's keep it in. Bryan BryanAJParry 11:09, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Bedroom & Bully

"bedroom" & "bully" are of germanic roots. 70.120.160.59 23:27, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Byte

Isn't byte merely a variation of the word bit, and therefore not an outlandish word at all? 83.100.155.117 13:29, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Yes but Bit is Romance(short for Biary Digit). ~Inkstersco

It is, however, wrong to call it "eightcleft" since not all bytes are 8 bits wide. I propose "nib" for "bit" and "nibble" for "byte", "staveness" as calque for languages that use the word meaning a "syllable" for a "byte" or just keep it as "byte" for historic purposes and call 8 bits "eightcleft" or whatever. 94.158.78.68 08:17, May 4, 2016 (UTC)

Bank (Riverbank)

I think this word may have been in Old English. 83.100.201.87 14:51, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Bully

Bully is Germanic -- I'm killing it, unless there's a case to be made for it. Inkstersco 18:24, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Bacon

I read that even thought it is loaned from french, the word bacon ultimately come from Germanic source (cognate with the word back). What do you think about this ?--Pyurio 14:41, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

banana- moonbairn

banana - moonbairn what's this? i don't get it64.129.127.5 21:52, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

I don't get the bairn bit of it. I can see how it might remsemble a moon. What about something like moonapple instead?

87.102.38.175 10:21, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

The "Bairn" part of it refers to a child; in essence, it's referring to the child of the moon, or it's "offspring." This doesn't make much sense to me either... but it is still possible. Add moonapple to the list if you haven't already -Noimnotokay 15:39, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Blue

Is it possible that we should add blue to the list of words here? Blue, from all sources that I have seen so far, seems to come from OF bleu... and then ultimately from a Germanic Root (by way of Frankish). However, if we were to replace this word, what would we replace it with? I haven't been able to find any other ways of saying blue either in modern English or in Old English, and the Old English equivalent (blæw) is close enough that it might be pointless to change the word blue itself. Any thoughts? -Noimnotokay 15:45, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

I changed the word "blue" to "blee" from the OE word "blēo", as well as hewen, bleahewen for light blue, and wellhequen (<OE welhecwen) for beautifully blue.Ðe Bronie Chriſter (talk) 15:34, December 16, 2016 (UTC)

Burlesque n. funiskas

What is the etymology of this word?

Burlesque n. from Fr. burlesque, from It. burlesco, meaning "joke, fun, mockery". burl "fun" + esque "iskas" suffix from proto-germanic forming adjectives and indicating "resemblance, style, manner, or distinctive character, etc., of Lord ratman 03:04, October 13, 2009 (UTC) Lord ratman

I have searched the following books and websteads: SOED, The Oxford Dictionary of English Etymology, Skeat's Etymological Dictionary, Shipley's Dictionary of Word Origins, Online Etymology Dictionary, Online Dictionary at Datasegment and Thesaurus of Old English database and conclude that the origin of "fun" is uncertain. When it first emerged in the 17th century it was used of a hoax or a practical joke. Some writers suggest that perhaps it evolved as a dialect variant of "fon" , a verb meaning 'make a fool of', itself related to fond. Based on the above, it would seem not unreasonable to take "fun" out of the wordbooks. A few brainstormers that may be OK anglish for the word burlesque(or somewhere near to its meanings, at least) are: scoff-wit (although "scoff" may be ON.); earthy wit?, send up, take off, striptease. Sholto 04:37, October 14, 2009 (UTC)

Ballet / Waltz

Would it not be wiser to use the first English word for it (16th hy?), also a kenning of the root, weller? Xelebes 16:32, August 25, 2011 (UTC)