Talk: English Wordbook/P

Prison was in OE

Basically. Bryan 82.44.212.6 20:02, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

?? I didn't think it came into English until the mid 12th century. 83.100.181.221 20:30, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

83.100.181.221 is right. English got "prison" from the Old French prisoun in the 12th century. (Source) 74.105.110.75 23:02, December 28, 2010 (UTC)

Possess

There is not a seperate meaning for Possess meaning spiritual -- It's the same meaning, the devil _has_ the body. Moreover, it can be other spirits that possess a body (so some suppose).

Possess(vb) = Have, Own -- I'd leave it at that.

Inkstersco 5 Jan 06

Do you mean that Possess 2 should be part of possess 1? Maybe, but the reason I have done it the way I have is simply to avoid potential confusion. I mean, we wouldn't say she is "owned", but we would say "devilsick" (hypothetically). So I thought it was a big enuff distinction to warrant a seperate entry. I mean, if you did merge them, then "possession" would still need two entries; namely the owning of a thing, and the actual state where someone is owned, as it were, by the devil. Which is something altogether different. :) BryanAJParry 02:00, 6 Jan 2006 (UTC)

Pagan -- Heathen

This is a Christian-centric view(and English is for everybody): A heathen is a non-Jehovah\Allah worshipper, so whilst technically accurate, it's a pretty bad entry, and probably deserves something better or nothing at all. ~Inkstersco 7 Jan 06

I disagree. I think it is a very good entry. Heathen and pagan are synonymous. The dictionary says of "Pagan": One who is not a Christian, Muslim, or Jew, especially a worshiper of a polytheistic religion. The dictionary says of "Heathen": One who adheres to the religion of a people or nation that does not acknowledge the God of Judaism, Christianity, or Islam. Almost exactly the same thing, just some rewording. I don't understand your objection; pagan and heathen are virtually the same thing (the only difference is that heathen, not as frequently used, therefore has "olde worlde" connotations).BryanAJParry 17:56, 7 Jan 2006 (UTC)

It creates confusion in philosophical debates, though, because an atheist is not a pagan, but might be a heathen. Also, would we discribe Hindus as pagans? ~Inkstersco 7 Jan 06

I'm sorry, but I'm really not following you. I listed "heathen" as the Anglish word for "Pagan". As I detailed above (and below), that is the dictionary definition. They are the same thing. In what ways are you claiming they differ? BryanAJParry 15:42, 8 Jan 2006 (UTC)

Of course, that is dictionary.com. My copy of the Concise Oxford English Dictionary defines a heathen as above and says that it was a Germanic rendering of Latin paganus: "pagan". And it's definition for "pagan" is "heathen". BryanAJParry 20:03, 7 Jan 2006 (UTC)

Patriarch -- Elder

This is a word I added. However, "elder" is also the homeborn word for "parent". Should we add "parent = elder", too? It makes sense. But is there too much of a clash between "parent" and "patriarch"? If so, how about "highelder" for "patriarch", with plain "elder" for "parent"? BryanAJParry 20:19, 8 Jan 2006 (UTC)

If you don't mind a newbie suggestion, what about "highfather" or "headfather"? That leaves the equivalent -mother word for "matriarch". --Hook-nose 21:41, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Thrill

I am, quite literally (not really), thrilled to find out that "thrill" is the English word for "penetrate" (and that the current sense is the metaphorical sense). Now, I know "thrill" in the sense of "penetrate" may not come back into fashion, but I am gladdened because it is one of the few hard nuts I have yet to crack. It has irked me for a LONG time. Every word I've ever heard or thought of did not fit the meaning, but thrill I now find once meant penetrate. The punning possibilities are great, too. Without being crude, one could thrill one's ladyfrend... :O BryanAJParry 21:36, 8 Jan 2006 (UTC)

The word you're looking for is thirl - to penetrate. Thirl and thrill share the same root but not the same meaning. -EinWulf ... Wes þu hal! 16:00, November 20, 2011 (UTC)

On the same note, do you too find it impossible to think of the word Manifold without imagining a vagina? ¬Inkstersco 9 Jan 06

Gosh! I had never thought of it that way before, but I can actually see manifold referrign to a fanny, yes. However, I reckon that such a use would be slighted as too amusing. And if it did catch on, it might well destroy the sense of "manifold" as it is. Same could be said of thrill, I guess (even tho I would just be returnign to the word the LITERAL meaning). BryanAJParry 12:02, 10 Jan 2006 (UTC)

Hello Bryan and Inkstersco,

Yes, I have liked the English word 'thrill' for over 15 years now. The word 'nostril' means 'nose-thrill', that is to say the 'thrill' or 'hole' in the nose.

Collins English Dictionary 1985 page 1006. nos+tril. either of the two external openings of the nose. [Old English nosthyrl, from nosu nose + thyrel hole]

Hence, I have throughthought to make up 'eartril' for earhole, not that there is much need for another word for earhole! Nevertheless, wordchoice can be a good thing when writing.

Likewise, I made up 'maidentril' as the Anglish for 'vagina'. Although I like 'maytril' much better. may is an archaic word for maiden [Old English maeg; related to Old High German mag kinsman, Old Norse magr a relative by marriage]

Also 'pintletril' for the 'eye' of the penis [Old English pintel = penis]. Others may like 'cocktril', 'knobtril'. Cock is Old English, whilst knob is Middle German. so maybe 'cocktril' ought to be the forechoice of the two.

[cock: Old English cocc (referring to the male fowl; the development of 15 Century sense spout, tap, and other transferred senses is not clear], ultimately of imitative origin; related to Old Norse kokkr, French coq, Late Latin coccus]

[knob: 14th Century from Middle Low German knobbe knot in wood; see knop]

What are your thoughts on these Anglish words? Max Pratt 25/01/2007 Max Pratt 02:40, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

On maidentril: I think it may be a little 'sexist' (Anglish that!). Oswax Scolere 12:45, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Pig

Pig was in Old English, and moreover, it seems it may be Germanic. So why replace it with Swine? I think we should take this entry ("pig = swine") out of the wordbook if no one gives a reason for why "pig" is not acceptable. :) BryanAJParry 19:30, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

'Pig' is thought to have been in Old English, but not needfully with the same meaning. Also, 'swine' is more German than 'pig', and I can understand why someone may like that word better. It is the same with 'dog' against 'hound'. I dare say that some folk lean towards words that are like German, and others do not mind as long as they are not French. I would like to see 'swine' and 'hound' in as the main words in Anglish, but I don't care to forward it, for there are greater things to worry anenst. For show, I would be glad if 'pork' was 'swineflesh', but it means more to me that it is not 'pork', even if it were to be 'pigflesh'. Oswax Scolere 19:44, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

If there isn't Romanic influence at work, and there is no reason to suppose there is, then it is perfect Anglish. End of. :) Dog = hound, hound = dog, swine = pig, pig = swine. Bryan BryanAJParry 13:51, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Folk/People

This has bothered me for a while. Whenever i see the word folk, i think it should mean people (as in populus). What i'd like to do is have folk mean populus, and men mean persons. Thoughts?

I know how you feel. But the OED says:

1. a. A people, nation, race, tribe. Obs. exc. arch.

b. transf. of animals. (After the Vulg. and Heb.)

2. a. An aggregation of people in relation to a superior, e.g. God, a king or priest; the great mass as opposed to an individual; the people; the vulgar. Obs. exc. arch.

b. (also pl.) Retainers, followers; servants, workpeople. Obs.

3. a. Men, people indefinitely. Also, people of a particular class, which is indicated by an adj. or some attributive phrase. From 14th c. onward the pl. has been used in the same sense, and since 17th c. is the ordinary form, the sing. being arch. or dial. The word is now chiefly colloq., being superseded in more formal use by people.

b. Individual persons; individuals.

4. a. pl. (exc. dial.) The people of one's family, parents, children, relatives.

b. dial. Friends, intimates.

5. a. attrib. and Comb., as {dag}folk-king, {dag}-need.

b. esp. in numerous mod. Combs. (formed after Ger. precedent) with the sense ‘of, pertaining to, current or existing among, the people; traditional, of the common (local) people, esp. opp. sophisticated, cosmopolitan’; as folk-art, -artist, -belief, -comedy, -culture, -custom, -drama, -epic, -hero, -legend, -life, -literature, -medicine, -mind, -museum, -name, -poem, -poetry, -rhyme, -speech, -tale, -tradition, etc. Bryan BryanAJParry 13:57, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Physics/worldken

Anglish needs a word for "physics". One choice is "worldken". This I have taken from that seeding writ by Poul Anderson, Uncleftish Beholdings, although it seems that "worldken" may be a better match for "science" than "physics". I guess if we want evenness across the words of Anglish, "bodylore" or something may also do.

Worldken is horrible and doesn't really suggest anything other than "knowledge of the world". Poul Anderson is not a good role model because he deliberately chose to make his essay sound jesty. Physics is the study of Matter. Stuff is a good word for Matter if we can forgive its brief passage through French to get to English. Stufflore works, but sounds a bit stroppy. ~Inkstersco

"Worldken" might be a good word for "science". "Stufflore" works as a word for "Physics" but it could also work as word for "Chemistry". I thought of "Motelore" and "Gaitlore" for "Physics", but I won't nail my flag to the mast on these. Any thoughts? Tom.

'Worldken' is a word from Poul Anderson, and to be honest, I think that pretty much all of the words from 'Ander-Saxon' should be forgotten. If you read Uncleftish Beholding, it reads like he is taking the piss out of Anglish. 'Lore' is a good word for 'science'. Oswax Scolere 09:37, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Predicament

Not sure if the word 'Plight' could be used for predicament as it is supposedly from Old French 'Pleit'. One of the words I have put in is 'Quandary' which is of unknown origin. Etym online guesses that it could be a quasi latinism of Latin 'Quando' meaning 'when' but I just can't see the connection. I think a more plausible explanation of its origin can be found in Walter Skeats English Etymology which he says Quandary may be a corruption of Middle English 'Wandreth' meaning 'evil, plight, peril, adversity' which itself comes from the same Scandinavian root as Icelandic 'Vandraeði = difficulty, trouble' and Old Swedish 'Wandräde = difficulty'. The meanings seem to match up more with quandary meaning a difficult situation and the words still show some similarity. Corruptions of this sort are not unheard of, compare Scottish 'quhar for whar, where' and Middle English 'squete for swete, sweet'. Makes sense?

Does make sense -- I'd include quandary. But, I wasn't convinced that Plight was conclusively of French origin. Are you sure? ~Inkstersco

There is an obsolete 'Plight' meaning to pledge which is a native word but plight meaning a bad condition or state comes from Old French and ultimately from Latin plicare "to fold, lay". Truth be known I got the two words mixed up myself at one point, I think it may have been me who added 'Plight' in the first place. But as far as I know, plight in the predicament sense is Romance :(.

213.249.247.80 13:39, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Pronoun

What about forname? {{SUBST:sig|User:Smiddle/}} 16:57, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Pacifist

The word frithweaver got me thinking. It looks to mean 'someone who works for frithfulness', but the same could be said for those who work toward frith by sometimes unpacifist means, like law-wardens, for starters. Besides, working toward frith is only one side of pacifism. What i mean to say is pacifism isn't needfully about frith, its about not doing harm; working for frith is but a furthering of pacifism. There's a kind of pacifist that outright will do no harm, no matter the outcome, no matter how unfrithful the outcome may be. such a pacifist needs a word of its own...like neverharmer, but better. As for the less far-out kind of pacifist, there's the word dove, which is already known, although not highly forthsetting, and a bit slang-like. The unanglish word might be sundered as pacifist, pragmatic/consequential and pacifist, principled/deontoligical/radical. Thanks for reading. Schreiter 19:07, 5 May 2007 (UTC) 19:07, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

Proud

What's this all anout? That was in OE.

81.132.85.14 14:57, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

Unanglish words

Lay came from Old French, so says etymonline. --Schreiter 06:25, 18 July 2008 (UTC) You are right: I can find no links to OE & Anglish. It doesn't seem to be an OE loanword. "Leeth" for lay (and poem) is the best I can come up with. Verse is, I think, an OE loanword; could it, in some, way be used?? Sholto 10:32, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

That is: leeth from OE leoþ Sholto 10:38, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Perpetual Motion

here is my reasoning, for OE variation of perpetual & perpetual motion. Sintrendel: sin- “prefix: ever, everlasting, continual, perpetual” + trend “from M.E. trenden "to roll about, turn, revolve," from O.E. trendan” + -el “suffix: acc.: deverbal adj.” Sindal Stirle: sin- “perpetual” + -gal “(suffix: acc.: deverbal adj.) meaning perpetual or continual” + stir “O.E. styrian, move” + -le “(suffix: acc.: deverbal adj.)” --Lord ratman 09:11, October 13, 2009 (UTC)

Politics

May we also brook words like "folksleading", "folksreding", "landreding", "headmanship", and so on for it? --山城上総 16:48, February 3, 2013 (UTC)

Property

I was þinking of adding, to ðe "unattested words" areä, "eaght", from ðe OE word for property, "æht" and would like to know what ȝe þink.Ðæ Bronie Chriſter (talk) 19:01, October 12, 2016 (UTC)

Pretend

Does anyone have a thought for how to overset "pretend" into Anglish? "do as if", "play as" (or some other foreputword (preposition)), "bebraid" (<OE bebregdan, but gives no hint at the meaning, and unlisted on Wiktionary so was likely little brooked), braid (<OE, gebregdan (ge seems to often get dropped after becoming ye) same thing), "hue" (<OE hiwian, used on "fashion", kinword seems to mean "feign" in Rhinish), "let" (in some way, <OE lætan), leset? (<OE léasettan, likely not brooked much either). Leaf for "feign" already has "sham" and "put on". I wonder if those are good enough or not. Byspels: I shammed to eat something. I put on to eat something. I put on eating something. I shammed that someone had done something. I put on that someone had done something. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 03:30, April 18, 2018 (UTC)

"Fordo" and "formake", maybe. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 16:54, April 18, 2018 (UTC)

I know this is very old, and I am brand new to Anglish, but my thoughts on the matter are as follows: Make belief/makebelieve is already a term in modern use. To literally pretend, as in, before you attend something, which is not the primary use of the term granted. I pre-tended my garden before I watered everything, you know? For such a word I could give foremake or fordo as suggested. But, pretend as in feign, I would say either forsham or just sham, but more likely forsham as it rolls off the tongue more naturally even if it's not a shorter word. All in all, make believe while it is a term used today, can't be used in the same contexts and as such I'm not sure I'd go with it. You could not say you makebelieved to eat something. You could, however, say you ate something, but it was all make believe - It wasn't real. All I can say is I like the term shamming, it just doesn't sound 'natural' to me like forshamming does. It's shorter than pretend and sounds relatively natural. I forshammed to eat something.

But for real, all innovating aside, we have a word for this already. Fake, which has roots in fegen (or feague which comes from fegen anyway) a Germanic word. We don't need to get crazy here. I faked eating something. It can't be used exactly the same but it's assuredly the most recognizable way to say the phrase Anglishly. SeriousTIEM (talk) 03:09, 9 February 2021 (UTC)