Anyone has any idea of what should we use for the word "Serve"? I'm thinking of "Thiste" but it is reconstruction from German "Dienst".
--184.108.40.206 10:03, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
First off the first step should always be to check OE and ME as well as NE dictionaries to see if we do not already have an English word for the meaning needed. In this case we do... The following lays out the words OE had for "serve" and gives links with etymologies showing how one of these words is akin to the word(s) for "serve" in modern continental Gmc. tongues, whereas the other word is not:
I assume you mean the verb "(to) serve", in which case the noun Dienst is not the appropriate form to refer to, but rather the verb dienen (from which the noun Dienst is derived). The verb dienen (< Old High German dionōn), regardless of any superficial resemblances, is evidently not cognate with OE verbþegnian, "to serve" (> ME þeinen > NE *thain). Alongside þegnian in OE occurs the similar looking monophthongal ðēnian, þēnian, "to serve". These are evidently two different spellings of the same word.
But the true OE cognate of Ger. dienen and its cognates in the other Germanic languages (see dionōn link above) is rather thionon, (*þēonan would be the expected form in West Saxon, i.e. "standard" OE) which seems to be either a hypothetical OE cognate which the OE noun þē(o)nest (directly cognate with the German and Dutch noun Dienst/dienst) seems to have been built from, or one which a number of lexicographers falesely thought they had recalled encountering in OE (because it seems that it is nowhere to be found in actual OE texts). Another word which is cognate, but with a different verbal suffix is þēowian. As can be seen in the respective dictionary entries provided in the links above, these verbs are often found side by side. While þeġnian /ðēnian, þēnian mean(s) something like "to serve constituents, fulfill an office, administer to churchgoers, subjects etc." þēowian means "to serve one's lord/Lord, to serve someone of higher rank/authority than oneself." The former reflects the sense of the noun from which it is built, þeġn, "retainer", "thane", "officer" (directly cognate with Du. degen, "brave warrior"), and the latter reflects the sense of the noun from which it is built, þēow, "servant, slave" (directly cognate with the first element in German Demut and Dutch deemoed; both "abjection, humility, lowliness, meekness").
In conclusion, if we follow the principle of preferring to revive words which are both better and more recently attested than those which are less well attested and died out earlier, then ME þeinen (< OE þegnian) ought to be revived as thain [the expected form, following the evolution of English phonology. (The spelling of the modern English noun thane reflects the fact that it was borrowed from Scots which regularly monophthongizes the original diphthong -ei-, signifying IPA /ej/ and /eɪ/ etc, to -a-, signifying IPA /e/)].
On the other hand, if we want to have a verb which more closely resembles the words for "to serve" in mainland Germanic tongues (dienen etc) then we have the option of reviving the monophthongized variant ðēnian, þēnian which would have become theen if it had survived through Middle English on into modern English. After all this variant form may well represent a syncretic blending of þeġnian with thionon, *þēonan, especially in light of the fact that þē(o)nest (noun form of thionon, *þēonan) seems to have been thoroughly conflated with þeġnest (noun form of þeġnian) already in OE.
Yet a third option is to revive þēowian as thew, with the understanding that this verb means "to serve" in a sense, quite distinct from the other two OE "serve" verbs.
I knew of the word "steam room" before "sauna".
220.127.116.11 17:02, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
- Indeed, as is the case with many words in English. The more english word is the one learnt first, and it is only later on in life that soem of us forget how to talk properly. I know I used to use "grown up" a lot more when I was a kid than later, when I started to say "adult"... now I say "grown up" again; I have seen the error of me ways! BryanAJParry 19:39, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
- I was wondering, is it ok to use translations of outlandish words?
- That's called calqueing, and can sometimes be misleading, but sometimes alright. An Anglish word must basically look like a rare English word that one simply hasn't heard of, and that means the morphemes should be used according to their English meanings. It's better to anglicise the definition than to calque the raw morphology of the word. So I think a better word would be Outlive, or Live Through. Inkstersco 20:20, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
- Definitely! This is, in fact, the de facto policy. Sure, calquing is finw when it's fine. But when the resultant word doesn't really well reflect the MEANING of that word, then there is a serious problem.... :) BryanAJParry 19:03, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
Couldn't this word be translated as "ween" instead of the ones already given? Padraig 16.06.2006
- I say aye, says I. ~Inkstersco
- Wow, what a word! Bryan BryanAJParry 22:55, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
Saint was in OE. BryanAJParry 06:40, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
I swear we've been thru this before..... "School" was in Old English. Bryan 18.104.22.168 08:13, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
- Thanks, now I can stop wracking my brains :) ~Inkstersco
I'm glad someone found a word for this -- but what exactly does Hain mean? ~Inkstersco
- Its a Scots dialectal word. It can also mean to preserve or protect. I Believe it comes from the Old Norse word 'Hegna'. Found it in a Scots glossary and the Dictionary o' the Scots Leid gave me its origins. 22.214.171.124 19:02, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
- That's great. Now that we have Hain, Stow and Hoard, all we need now is a word that means Rescue. ~Inkstersco
- This is Hain used in the preserve context 'Scots is our mither tung; an gin we dinna hain it, thare naebody gaun tae hain it for us.' I think you've probably guess that it mean 'Scots is our mother tongue; and if we do not preserve it, nobody will preserve it for us.' Its a word thats starting to grow on me :) 126.96.36.199 19:22, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
- By the way how about the word "Spare", it is cognate with Swedish "Spara" (meaning "to save")
Pyurio 10:07, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
Is there a survived word for this one, or is this left for now? Padraig 13.3.2007
- Apparently Old English used the word 'Other' to mean 'second' but I think the word 'second' came to be used because 'other' was too ambiguous. I think the Scandinavian languages still use other for second though. So, the original word survived but with a reduced meaning. 188.8.131.52 17:02, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
- I think Old English also used 'after' to mean 'second', but again, that word has since lost that meaning. The word I most often use if 'next', because it kind of has some of the meanings of 'second'. I can't think of anything better, so I try to make this word work. Oswax Scolere 17:10, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
Does the word storm need to be replaced? 184.108.40.206 08:20, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
Stunt is Old English. Hereward 09:01, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
Hello! I have been reading about the etymology of Scandinavia, and it would appear to be reconstructed to the form *Skaðanawjo, atleast according to Knut Helle. *Skaðan would mean "danger" or "damage" (English cognate is to scathe). *Awjo is the root for the English iland, which is also found in the form ey. Therefore, I suggest a translation to Scandinavia as being Scathey. Comments? Padraig 29.01.2008
- I know that you will likely never read this for that you are unlikely to ever come to this webside again after all of these years, but good word here. It follows on from the Old English word well too. MýnÆnglishTáwk (talk) 05:14, July 12, 2018 (UTC)
Is there a good word to use instead of "stress" in the sense of "physical or mental pressure"? I realize it actually comes from ME stresse, and has been in use since the 1200's, but while it may be of ancient origin, it still sounds painfully modern to me.
220.127.116.11 14:36, 15 August 2009 (UTC) croiduire
Out of curiosity, what constitutes "sounding modern"?
I'm not sure why "sounding modern" in and of itself is a problem. A more relevant question to the project of Anglish is how Anglo-Saxon/Germanic the word is. Stress is of French origin (ultimately from Latin stringere "press, tighten, compress"), as can easily be found by looking up its etymology. So on that ground it should be swapped out for a word of Anglo-Saxon origin. Two words of Old English origin which mean "stress" in the root-sense of "pressure" are:
- thrutch [apparently unattested as a noun in OE (but OE had þrycness) = with NHG. Druck = Du. druk (as an adjective it has much the same meaning as Eng. stressed) = Da. tryk = Norw. trykk = Swe. tryck. As far as I know no other Gmc. language uses this to mean psychological pressure, i.e. "stress", but it's not much of a leap from it's English meaning. The only misgiving I have about using thrutch for "stress" is that we need a word for "(printing) press", "print", and all the other Gmc. langs. use their cognates of thrutch for this secondary meaning in addition to the basic meaning of "pressure". I would sooner use thrutch for this meaning than psychological pressure/ stress. However such a wide range of meanings is not that troubling. To be more precise we could put an adjective meaning "psychological"/"mental"/"emotional" before thrutch. So a phrase like soul-thrutch, mind-thutch, or suchlike might dow here. Or we could use thrutchness (< OE þrycness) for "stress" and keep thrutch for the ground-meaning of "pressure" and "printing press"/ "print" as in German and Dutch.]
- thringing (gerund form of Eng. verb thring, the basic noun form of which is the more common word throng. Eng. throng is cognate with NHG Drang, Du. drang and trang/ trong in Scandiniavian langs. AFIK Only German uses this word to mean "stress"/ "pressure" in a psychological sense, as in "Sturm und Drang". Considering this and the fact that throng in its modern Eng. sense is already pretty far removed from a neutral sense of "pressure", it makes little sense to make the great leap to a figurative meaning of psychological pressure/ "stress". However using thringing in the sense of a psychological "pushing"/ "pressing" works quite well.)
After a quick look on the web I found a few scattered byspells of Seelendruck (cognate with my proposed soul-thrutch) being used in German for "psychological pressure", that is "stress". There may more seldseen kinwords in other Germanic tungs.
I've added the word 'poost' for 'spirit.' According to the way my grandmother (from an area in the US where English was mixed in with a bunch of German words) used the word, it means 'breath' or 'energy.' For show, after running a marathon, someone might say, "I'm out of poost," meaning "I'm out of breath and I can't really do anything right now."
There are some problems, though. 1) I'm almost certain this was taken from German into English. 2) Although I've found the word in Yola (dead offshoot of English), German, and Danish, I haven't been able to find any (Old) English word. That is, I'm spelling it hearingly, and likely grounded on German.
Nonetheless, I'm sure this is a good word, even if it's spelling may not be. Any thoughts?
- Geist is alreddy in the wordbooks, no need to make a new word.
- Geist: noun - the spirit of an individual or group. (OED)
-EinWulf ... Wes þu hal! 13:55, October 9, 2011 (UTC)
I forthput 'blote' instead of 'bloot'; for I believe it flows better off the lips.
I weened a word "harmglee" for it. how do ye think?--山城上総 11:21, February 3, 2013 (UTC)
- or one may brook "harmingglee".--山城上総 11:31, February 3, 2013 (UTC)
Can anyone think of an Anglo-Saxon equivalent to the words spectrophotometer/spectrphotometry? All the continental Germanic tungs use the latin/greek hybrid except Icelandic and I cannot decide the Anglish equivalent to the Icelandic one. I have tried "rainbow mete" but "rainbow" does not have the same connotations as "spectrum" Help would be appreciated
limesop gatherer ?
‘Skin’ is a loan from Old Norse, not English (as sk‐ was not inbred to English). Other likewords include flesh, hide, and the afterbuilt shin (O.E. < scinn). As a mild cleaner, I’m not bothered by borrowings from kindred tongues, but it seems that you folks are, so I took the freedom of telling you now. 18.104.22.168 03:33, September 3, 2014 (UTC)
Screen is a loan from French, French having loaned from old Frankish "Skirm". Old Frankish, Old Saxon and Old High German all have "Skirm" from Proto-Germanic "Skirmiz", since the "sk" becomes "sh" in English (Sch in Dutch and German) I reconstructed an English word from the Germanic source. Do you folks accept such a way of working? Without the reconstructed word "shirm", Anglish would suffer from a bit of a gap in its wordstock compared to other Germanic tungs. Compare "shirm" to Dutch "scherm" and German "Schirm". Glennznl (talk) 13:10, October 21, 2014 (UTC)
Hello everyone! I'm commenting on the proposed used of "berg" as a verb meaning "save", based on the Old English verb "beorgan". Based on the form of this word, it would not come down to Modern English/Anglish as "berg". A single "g" at the end of a word is usally vocallized to a "y" or a "ow" depending on what comes before it. And the vowel cluster "eo" often becomes an "a" when it comes before an "r". From this, we can see that "beorgan" would be likely to come into Modern English/Anglish as "barrow", not as "berg". In fact, the modern English word "barrow", in the sense of "ancient burial mound", comes from an Old English word spelled "beorg", that is a homonym to the verb if you take off the inflections, so we don't even have to speculate about how the modern form of "beorg" would look like. For this reason, I think "barrow" should be included in the article alongside "berg" as an alternative updating of "beorgan". I put this in, but was reverted for some reason. Does anybody disagree with this reasoning?
Allright, so sense comes lastingly from proto-germanic sinnaz (see OE sinnan, NHG Sinn, Du zin, and so on) then got borrwed into Latin sennus, from latin to french sen and back into the english speech with sense - of our kinred and fully germanic.Alfredikus (talk) 06:36, March 28, 2017 (UTC)
Should 'suburb' be 'underborough', from Old English 'underburg'?
- Well, why not, thats an good anglo-saxon word. I'll eke it to the wordbook.
On the orspring of "stuff," I'm not fretting over it. It is from the PG "stuppona". I also like "stuff" since it goes with the flow of the other Theedish speech (NHG Stoff, Du. Stof). I don't think the word "mote" is somewhat fitting for the word "stuff" since mote is noted only for protons/neutrons/electron. Beside, if we are going to take up "mote" for everything, what about Waterstuff or Sourstuff ??? (NHG Wasserstoff, Sauerstuff, Du. waterstof, zuurstof). We would have to swap out all the words on "The Board of Firststuffs," Wordforword (talk) 17:47, July 10, 2017 (UTC)
Even though the "fading of Ormotes" is a good thought, there are way too many names for one thing. I also think it should be onefold for any outsider to understand what is being hinted at, and there should be one name for each thing. But I do give it to you, "stuff" is from French Wordforword (talk) 18:51, July 10, 2017 (UTC)
I FOUND THE WORD FOR "sound." ->>>> "loude" Took me forever... It does seem a little too near the word "loud" though. It's even said the same way. Should we put in something, take something out? I put the link if it helps. Loute?
I think "sir" and "sire" should be "har" instead of the Theetch (German) "Herr". Old English "hearp" became "harp", so wouldn't "hearra" become "har"? I'm writing here first so no one is upset if I edstow (replace) anything.
I think you are right too. I found a word that comes straightly from *hairaz (Proto-Theetch) where the Theetch get their "Herr." See Hare (ety. 3) which means "venerable, worthy of respect." `Wordforword (talk) 17:35, July 19, 2017 (UTC)
I fixed the entry for specific because the original Anglish translation gave only just, which is 100% French/Latin. I merely put in some samewords that I got from Thesaurus.com. John Petrie (talk) 22:49, July 11, 2018 (UTC)
Specific seems to be one of the hardest words to overset, I've found. Any grip in coming to the new moot at Miraheze, since Wikia loves forcing its brookers to do things like brook its bloated skin (Monobook was killed on May 25)? —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 13:16, July 12, 2018 (UTC)