Talk:English Wordbook/S

Serve

Anyone has any idea of what should we use for the word "Serve"? I'm thinking of "Thiste" but it is reconstruction from German "Dienst".

--202.153.248.252 10:03, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

First off the first step should always be to check OE and ME as well as NE dictionaries to see if we do not already have an English word for the meaning needed. In this case we do... The following lays out the words OE had for "serve" and gives links with etymologies showing how one of these words is akin to the word(s) for "serve" in modern continental Gmc. tongues, whereas the other word is not:

I assume you mean the verb "(to) serve", in which case the noun Dienst is not the appropriate form to refer to, but rather the verb dienen (from which the noun Dienst is derived). The verb dienen (< Old High German dionōn), regardless of any superficial resemblances, is evidently not cognate with OE verbþegnian, "to serve" (> ME þeinen > NE *thain). Alongside þegnian in OE occurs the similar looking monophthongal ðēnian, þēnian, "to serve". These are evidently two different spellings of the same word.

But the true OE cognate of Ger. dienen and its cognates in the other Germanic languages (see dionōn link above) is rather thionon, (*þēonan would be the expected form in West Saxon, i.e. "standard" OE) which seems to be either a hypothetical OE cognate which the OE noun þē(o)nest (directly cognate with the German and Dutch noun Dienst/dienst) seems to have been built from, or one which a number of lexicographers falesely thought they had recalled encountering in OE (because it seems that it is nowhere to be found in actual OE texts). Another word which is cognate, but with a different verbal suffix is þēowian. As can be seen in the respective dictionary entries provided in the links above, these verbs are often found side by side. While þeġnian /ðēnian, þēnian mean(s) something like "to serve constituents, fulfill an office, administer to churchgoers, subjects etc." þēowian means "to serve one's lord/Lord, to serve someone of higher rank/authority than oneself." The former reflects the sense of the noun from which it is built, þeġn, "retainer", "thane", "officer" (directly cognate with Du. degen, "brave warrior"), and the latter reflects the sense of the noun from which it is built, þēow, "servant, slave" (directly cognate with the first element in German Demut and Dutch deemoed; both "abjection, humility, lowliness, meekness").

In conclusion, if we follow the principle of preferring to revive words which are both better and more recently attested than those which are less well attested and died out earlier, then ME þeinen (< OE þegnian) ought to be revived as thain (the expected form, following the evolution of English phonology. [The spelling of the modern English noun thane reflects the fact that it was borrowed from Scots which regularly monophthongizes the original diphthong -ei- (signifying IPA /ej/ and /eɪ/ etc.) to -a- (signifying IPA /e/)].

On the other hand, if we want to have a verb which more closely resembles the words for "to serve" in mainland Germanic tongues (dienen etc) then we have the option of reviving the monophthongized variant ðēnian, þēnian which would have become theen if it had survived through Middle English on into modern English. After all this variant form may well represent a syncretic blending of þeġnian with thionon, *þēonan, especially in light of the fact that þē(o)nest (noun form of thionon, *þēonan) seems to have been thoroughly conflated with þeġnest (noun form of þeġnian) already in OE.

Yet a third option is to revive þēowian as thew, with the understanding that this verb means "to serve" in a sense, quite distinct from the other two OE "serve" verbs.

Speechlarer (talk) 23:46, November 18, 2012 (UTC)

Sauna

I knew of the word "steam room" before "sauna".

81.157.247.141 17:02, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

Indeed, as is the case with many words in English. The more english word is the one learnt first, and it is only later on in life that soem of us forget how to talk properly. I know I used to use "grown up" a lot more when I was a kid than later, when I started to say "adult"... now I say "grown up" again; I have seen the error of me ways! BryanAJParry 19:39, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

I was wondering, is it ok to use translations of outlandish words?

That's called calqueing, and can sometimes be misleading, but sometimes alright. An Anglish word must basically look like a rare English word that one simply hasn't heard of, and that means the morphemes should be used according to their English meanings. It's better to anglicise the definition than to calque the raw morphology of the word. So I think a better word would be Outlive, or Live Through. Inkstersco 20:20, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Definitely! This is, in fact, the de facto policy. Sure, calquing is finw when it's fine. But when the resultant word doesn't really well reflect the MEANING of that word, then there is a serious problem.... :) BryanAJParry 19:03, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Suppose

Couldn't this word be translated as "ween" instead of the ones already given? Padraig 16.06.2006

I say aye, says I. ~Inkstersco

Wow, what a word! Bryan BryanAJParry 22:55, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Saint

Saint was in OE. BryanAJParry 06:40, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

School

I swear we've been thru this before..... "School" was in Old English. Bryan 82.44.212.6 08:13, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, now I can stop wracking my brains :) ~Inkstersco

Save\Hain

I'm glad someone found a word for this -- but what exactly does Hain mean? ~Inkstersco

Its a Scots dialectal word. It can also mean to preserve or protect. I Believe it comes from the Old Norse word 'Hegna'. Found it in a Scots glossary and the Dictionary o' the Scots Leid gave me its origins. 83.100.181.151 19:02, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

That's great. Now that we have Hain, Stow and Hoard, all we need now is a word that means Rescue. ~Inkstersco

This is Hain used in the preserve context 'Scots is our mither tung; an gin we dinna hain it, thare naebody gaun tae hain it for us.' I think you've probably guess that it mean 'Scots is our mother tongue; and if we do not preserve it, nobody will preserve it for us.' Its a word thats starting to grow on me :) 83.100.195.114 19:22, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

By the way how about the word "Spare", it is cognate with Swedish "Spara" (meaning "to save")

Pyurio 10:07, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Second

Is there a survived word for this one, or is this left for now? Padraig 13.3.2007

Apparently Old English used the word 'Other' to mean 'second' but I think the word 'second' came to be used because 'other' was too ambiguous. I think the Scandinavian languages still use other for second though. So, the original word survived but with a reduced meaning. 83.100.151.9 17:02, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

I think Old English also used 'after' to mean 'second', but again, that word has since lost that meaning. The word I most often use if 'next', because it kind of has some of the meanings of 'second'. I can't think of anything better, so I try to make this word work. Oswax Scolere 17:10, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Storm

Does the word storm need to be replaced? 83.100.150.54 08:20, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Stunt

Stunt is Old English. Hereward 09:01, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Scandinavia

Hello! I have been reading about the etymology of Scandinavia, and it would appear to be reconstructed to the form *Skaðanawjo, atleast according to Knut Helle. *Skaðan would mean "danger" or "damage" (English cognate is to scathe). *Awjo is the root for the English iland, which is also found in the form ey. Therefore, I suggest a translation to Scandinavia as being Scathey. Comments? Padraig 29.01.2008

Stress

Is there a good word to use instead of "stress" in the sense of "physical or mental pressure"? I realize it actually comes from ME stresse, and has been in use since the 1200's, but while it may be of ancient origin, it still sounds painfully modern to me.

24.251.197.81 14:36, 15 August 2009 (UTC) croiduire

Spirit

I've added the word 'poost' for 'spirit.' According to the way my grandmother (from an area in the US where English was mixed in with a bunch of German words) used the word, it means 'breath' or 'energy.' For show, after running a marathon, someone might say, "I'm out of poost," meaning "I'm out of breath and I can't really do anything right now."

There are some problems, though. 1) I'm almost certain this was taken from German into English. 2) Although I've found the word in Yola (dead offshoot of English), German, and Danish, I haven't been able to find any (Old) English word. That is, I'm spelling it hearingly, and likely grounded on German.

Nonetheless, I'm sure this is a good word, even if it's spelling may not be. Any thoughts?

Geist is alreddy in the wordbooks, no need to make a new word.

Geist: noun - the spirit of an individual or group. (OED)

-EinWulf ... Wes þu hal! 13:55, October 9, 2011 (UTC)

Sacrifice

I forthput 'blote' instead of 'bloot'; for I believe it flows better off the lips.

Hrothland (talk) 21:24, November 7, 2012 (UTC)Hrothland