Talk: Richcraft and the English Tung

Latest revision as of 08:46, 6 February 2021

Some words needing overbringing[]

Here are some words that need to be overbrought:

vice suffer example numeber refer professor essay communist pamphlet letter

I really like this idea. What idea? The idea of listing words on the talkleaf that ought to be overbrought. Sometimes, tho, particularly for culture-specific type things, I think we all agree that there need not be any change. To whit, perhaps "Communust" is fine as it is. Anyway. Germanic English is "rime". However, "num(b)er" seems to suffice quite well in more-or-less all other Germanic languages.... Soem suggestions..... Professor might be "highteacher/loreman". "Essay" could be "wranglewrit" ["Writ" we are using for "article", for instance). "Pamphlet" is "leaflet", surely: the two words mean more-or-less the same thing, sorta. Letter is already listed (by me) in the wordbook as "errandwrit"; this was the word in OE. As in the alphabet, it is "bookstave" in the wordbook. Dunno about the rest. :) Bryan BryanAJParry 21:41, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

You're right, it is a good thought to list them here, so that we can see where and how the words are written.

Onto the words:

Vice could be replaced by 'sin' or 'flaw'.

Suffer, in this case, could be turned into a transitive verb, and thus given as '...vices which now wrack us'? Or something alike.

Example could simply become 'show' (as a noun).

Number, for me, is mostly 'deal', but here it is a verb, so instead 'reckon'.

Refer is maybe best here as 'come back', 'bring up' or 'speak anent'.

Professor, like Bryan, I would most likely give as 'loreman', though as a title, it could be 'The Learned'?

Essay could be 'writ' or 'writing'. Is there a need for a specific word?

Communist is far too hard right now to overbring. I settle with Bryan that it is best left.

The others I don't have any good thoughts on. Oswax Scolere 07:58, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

I hold with Osawx, 'communist" should stand as it is, and the insteadwords he has given are good. I am unsure anent "rikecraft" though.

The nowlike English word for old English rice is "rich", as such is akin to Teutish "Reich", Netherlandish "Rijk", and so on.

Further more, many many languages keep the greek word. See the end of this leaf for tongues that have a variation of "Politics" http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/politics

And endly, rike/rice/reich/rijk is more akin to english "Empire, Riches, Realm", not politics. Perhaps we should stand with politics? 'Mootscraft' is another idea...User:Franz Jericho 00:59, 18 May 2007

My thoughts:

argument -> wisdom speech (This seems to be the hardest word to overbring without losing or sorely shifting meaning or thought)

preferring -> wanting over

process is reversible -> happening can be undone

specimens -> bit-takings

vices -> unwholenesses, unworthinesses (or -hood may be set in the where of -ness in the foregone words, to look more like other theodisch tunges, and in my feeling this is the next hardest word to overbring)

suffer -> feel wounded

examples -> thought-showing bit-takings, thoughty bit-takings

number -> many -ness, -hood, or -th (or meenyth, to have i-loudshifting)

refer -> bring forth in thought from, bring forth thoughty bit-takings (yes, too long and still overly broad in meaning!)

-Nightvid

Change of Words?[]

Previous consensus was that Communist should be left, since it was found too hard to overbring. However since we now use Band of Workermootly Kithish Commonwealths for the Soviet Union how about "Workermootly" (His words and deeds were Workermootly.), "Workermootman/woman" ("S/he was a Communist", would change to "S/he was a Workermootman/woman"), "Workermoot" (For a specific Communist government, as in "Russland, was a Workermoot until...") and Workermootish (I.E, The Workermootish powers)?Outermost Toe 00:58, November 15, 2010 (UTC)

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
+[[Talk:Rikecraft_and_the_English_Tung/politics|the word ''politics'']]
-I'm thinking of overbringing George Orwell's "Politics and the English Language". I'm thinking the name should be overbrought as "Yokecraft and the English Tung". Thoughts?
+== Some words needing overbringing ==
-:I made a start on that, but feel free to do so also and we'll maybe pick the best of each. I suggest that if you do overbring it, you keep Orwell's quoted examples in English.
+Here are some words that need to be overbrought:
-:I also did the Intro to Origin of Species which is now uploaded. There are many words in that which are not in the wordbook yet, so feel free to cultivate some of the words from there (if you feel they have merit).
+vice suffer example numeber refer professor essay communist pamphlet letter
-:[[User:81.157.119.117|81.157.119.117]] 06:42, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
-::Only one point, that I think that the word for state / polis ought to be 'ric', and therefore, maybe politics ought to be 'ricescraft'. You needn't follow my suggestion, but in an article (Cicero, I think) I wrote 'ricesman' for 'stateman'. [[User:Oswax Scolere|Oswax Scolere]] 09:29, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
+:I really like this idea. What idea? The idea of listing words on the talkleaf that ought to be overbrought. Sometimes, tho, particularly for culture-specific type things, I think we all agree that there need not be any change. To whit, perhaps "Communust" is fine as it is. Anyway. Germanic English is "rime". However, "num(b)er" seems to suffice quite well in more-or-less all other Germanic languages.... Soem suggestions..... Professor might be "highteacher/loreman". "Essay" could be "wranglewrit" ["Writ" we are using for "article", for instance). "Pamphlet" is "leaflet", surely: the two words mean more-or-less the same thing, sorta. Letter is already listed (by me) in the wordbook as "errandwrit"; this was the word in OE. As in the alphabet, it is "bookstave" in the wordbook. Dunno about the rest. :) Bryan [[User:BryanAJParry|BryanAJParry]] 21:41, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
-:::I agree. I think the nowa shape of riice, though, would be rike. Right me if I'm wrong. [[User:Bob A|Bob A]] 02:47, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
+::You're right, it is a good thought to list them here, so that we can see where and how the words are written.
-::::I'm not so sure. That's factually accurate, but I thought one of the ground rules was that Anglish uses only existing roots(albeit sometimes archaic\literary) that happen to be of Old English or Germanic origin, without sounding soo foreign, and maybe a few back formations etc. At any rate, I thought me Bryan and Oswax agreed that attested roots are better than non-attested ones, and so with Yoke available, and Rike completely unfamiliar and extinct, it would be a no-contest. I don't think a first-time reader of Anglish should be able to tell that it's an artificial language just by looking at it, and should be left with the impression that it's an obscure dialect of English(rather than Paul Anderson's "what-if" language). Ideally, they'd be able to intuitively understand it also, even though some of the words are invented. Randomly resurrecting Old English words is basically too easy, such that one might as well just modernise Old English, which would be a seperate project. [[User:81.157.119.117|81.157.119.117]] 08:17, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
+::Onto the words:
-:::::Yoke is worse because it's a bit nonsensical, and I wasn't familiar with it at all before I read it in the wordbook. Also, rike shouldn't sound holy foreign because of the Dutch word 'reich'. If we're limited to familiar words, it's going to be rather hard. Anyway, you can change it if you think of a better word. [[User:Bob A|Bob A]] 20:33, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
+::'''Vice''' could be replaced by 'sin' or 'flaw'.
-::::::We're not limited to familiar words, but to existing roots. "Rike" is a "what-if" lifted straight from Old English and is a pretty radical addition. That sort of thing has been discouraged this far because it sets the ball rolling toward a Jurassic Park language. Anglish as it appears on this site is a reworking of English as we know it, so as to stretch its Anglo-Saxon resources to the full. I'm surprised Oswax suggested it, as it seems a big departure from what we're used to. [[User:81.157.119.117|81.157.119.117]] 21:19, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
+::'''Suffer''', in this case, could be turned into a transitive verb, and thus given as '...vices which now wrack us'? Or something alike.
+::'''Example''' could simply become 'show' (as a noun).
+::'''Number''', for me, is mostly 'deal', but here it is a verb, so instead 'reckon'.
+::'''Refer''' is maybe best here as 'come back', 'bring up' or 'speak anent'.
+::'''Professor''', like Bryan, I would most likely give as 'loreman', though as a title, it could be 'The Learned'?
+::'''Essay''' could be 'writ' or 'writing'. Is there a need for a specific word?
+::'''Communist''' is far too hard right now to overbring. I settle with Bryan that it is best left.
+::The others I don't have any good thoughts on. [[User:Oswax Scolere|Oswax Scolere]] 07:58, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
+:::I hold with Osawx, 'communist" should stand as it is, and the insteadwords he has given are good. I am unsure anent "rikecraft" though.
-Did the first two paragraphs(?). I chose the word yokecraft for that politics is groundwise the skill of subjugating folk. At now, I namely need the words for matter, economie (badly), result, cause, argument, fail, professional, and specimen, the last I couldn't overbring at all. [[User:Bob A|Bob A]] 07:05, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
+:::The nowlike English word for old English ''rice'' is "rich", as such is akin to Teutish "Reich", Netherlandish "Rijk", and so on.
-:Nice start(it's always harder than it looks!). I think, though, that the established method is Lifelore\Lifely, etc, etc, rather than X-Craf-ish and so on. It's not a rule, for there are no real rules, but it's mostly preferred that we avoid the Germany-ish "texture" : "Ichtungwierenheerecraften!", etc.
+:::Further more, many many languages keep the greek word. See the end of this leaf for tongues that have a variation of "Politics" http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/politics
-:Note: There are words in OOS and in this one that are not yet in the wordbook.
+:::And endly, rike/rice/reich/rijk is more akin to english "Empire, Riches, Realm", not politics. Perhaps we should stand with politics? 'Mootscraft' is another idea...[[User:Franz Jericho]] 00:59, 18 May 2007
-:[[User:81.157.119.117|81.157.119.117]] 21:42, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
-*wades in like some kind of monster* Sorry I haven't been too busy here lately, folks. The old lorestead is getting in my way. Anyway, on seeing this writ, my first reaction to "rikecraft" was 'what in the eff!?!?'. Howeve,r I don't think it is a bad coining. For what it's worth, the Modern English reflexive of Old English "ri:c" is "rich" (as in "wealthy"). However, the "hard" root does exist. Notably, in the word "bishopric". "Rike" is attested (with the sense, and I quote, " A kingdom, realm, royal domain; also, royal power or estate, sovereignty."), however, this was a northern form whose last attestation seems to have been in the fifteenth century.   All in all, I don't think it is the best word for the thing, but it isn't whackoland kind of stuff. What we have, here, is an obscure(ish) word whose meaning has been heavily altered by us. Thus, as I say, not the best word, perhaps, but not TOTALLY unacceptable. Unnamed (Ian?) makes a good point: Anglish is not about a "what if" language. That is a very slippery slope. It is a really interesting project, but it isn't really what Anglish is about. "Rike" is probabl;y borderline. [[User:BryanAJParry|BryanAJParry]] 16:27, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
+My thoughts:
-:Rich came through old French, so it doesn't count.
+argument -> wisdom speech (This seems to be the hardest word to overbring without losing or sorely shifting meaning or thought)
+preferring -> wanting over
+process is reversible -> happening can be undone
+specimens -> bit-takings
+vices -> unwholenesses, unworthinesses (or -hood may be set in the where of -ness in the foregone words, to look more like other theodisch tunges, and in my feeling this is the next hardest word to overbring)
+suffer -> feel wounded
+examples -> thought-showing bit-takings, thoughty bit-takings
+number -> many -ness, -hood, or -th (or meenyth, to have i-loudshifting)
+refer -> bring forth in thought from, bring forth thoughty bit-takings (yes, too long and still overly broad in meaning!)
+-Nightvid
+== Change of Words? ==
+Previous consensus was that Communist should be left, since it was found too hard to overbring. However since we now use Band of Workermootly Kithish Commonwealths for the Soviet Union how about "Workermootly" (His words and deeds were Workermootly.), "Workermootman/woman" ("S/he was a Communist", would change to "S/he was a Workermootman/woman"), "Workermoot" (For a specific Communist government, as in "Russland, was a Workermoot until...") and Workermootish (I.E, The Workermootish powers)?[[User:Outermost Toe|Outermost Toe]] 00:58, November 15, 2010 (UTC)